Rage Against Reform Will Not Stop It
Listening to the people showing up at town hall meetings across the country to scream their opposition to President Obama’s health care reform proposals, you would think this is a concept that was sprung on them after last November’s election. It isn’t. Barack Obama ran on a platform heavily invested in the idea of significant health care reform, and the creation of a public option for the purchase of health insurance. From what I recall of the campaign, he spoke of it often. And he won. By a wide margin. Had enough people not liked what they heard about his ideas on health care reform, he might have lost. He didn’t.
I only bring up this Politics 101 lesson because the town hall screamers—I refer here to the ones who seem to be following a playbook dictated by health care lobbyists, as well as “freelancers” who are enhancing their message with painted swastikas and death threats aimed at members of Congress willing to come out to hear constituent thoughts on the issue—seem to have the twisted point of view that the duly-elected administration and Congressional majorities are thwarting the will of the people rather than following it.
So I find it interesting that one of the main tactics of some of the town hall protestors is equating the President and his policies with totalitarian regimes, even employing the great argument-ender that throws every debate permanently out of whack—Hitler and Nazi Germany (I’m still trying to figure out how the President and his administration can be linked with both Nazism and Communism, two completely opposing philosophies.. but, whatever). Really, though, the people trying to disrupt these town hall meetings are the ones throwing a wrench into the workings of democracy. They’re the ones silencing viewpoints that differ from theirs. Can you say “projection?”
It might work for them this time. The shouting and the intimidation seem to have supporters of reform, including the President, back on their heels, and the media has been quite complicit in making this minority view seem more like the majority. But all they’re going to succeed in doing in the long run is further shrinking the conservative movement into an aging, white, mostly Southern political subcategory. Health care reform including a public insurance option will pass eventually, as long as a significant majority of Americans keep voting for people who are calling for it. That’s what the American system is based on, not on who can scream the loudest or make up the most false rumors.
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Comments: 26
Jim,
This issue has perplexed me as well. Our president campaigned on change and one of his campaign promises was to reform healthcare. Now that he is making good on the promise, people are saying he's Communist?
The people voted for change, but then complain once things start to change.
I believe that most of this is due to human nature. Two sayings come to mind: We want our cake and to eat it too, and the grass is always greener on the other side.
While visiting Canada this summer, I learned that Canada pays for it's universal healthcare by imposing a 15% tax on most everything. Most Americans will tell you that they want universal healthcare, but are also not willing to pay for it.
You know what though, I've learned long ago that if people aren't talking about you or criticizing you, you are not doing anything of importance. So let the critics criticize. Who's criticizing them?
Jenny -
If you're being honest in your "perplexed" mode - let me try to clear it up:
What's fustrating to "most of us", is coverage like tonight - parroting the Prez's position, letting him get away with statement's like "I Don't support Death Boards".....repeating them in big CAPITAL graphics on the screen......
WHO DOES??? The issue is WHAT IS IN THE BILL!? DOES it or does it not provide that POWER to the federal government?! - It does.
Why "cover the rage"??? Why was there not a TRUE journalist interviewing at least half a dozen of those attendees most vocal - to ASK THE QUESTION, "WHY"??
Do you really believe these old folks are "organized" by some oustide syndicate?? all over the country?? no way..
The issue is - like it or not - +2/3rd's of folks have decent healthcare.
The Bill presented, as well as O'Bama's OWN WORDS from 2003, state that his GOAL is a "single Payer system". What does that mean??
There will be government-provided healthcare insurance - --and ONLY government provided.
This is not in the bill -but, in his own quote (you can find it in UTube), he states "we can't get to single payer immediately, but a public option would be a start and overtime most companies will drop their insurance-perks to save money..".....
You tell me - WHAT in WHAT bill SAVES Healthcare??
What will LOWER the COSTS to provide more for less???
You hear most other countries spend less --- YES, because the GOVERMENTS control it. HERE, WE are FREE to SPEND as much as we want. I AM PROUD, we spend more to keep GRANDMA's quality of life going - then other countries who ARE NOT ALLOWED.
NOW- what SHOULD BE in the Plan, but isn't???
-TORT REFORM (watch how many lawyers enter a hospital "on business", daily; ask docs how much it costs them for malpractice, for extra test just to CYA)...
-HEALTCARE ACCOUNTS-the educated consumer would DRIVE costs down. WHY can you save $$ tax free for retirement - but, there's NO deduction for HEALTHCARE Insurance $$??????
-CROSS-STATE competition for HealthInsurance - Why not allow the company offering good plans in Idaho, offer it to NJ ?? NO GOOD REASON.
THERE's SO MUCH THAT MAKES SENSE.
CLEARLY, why not at LEAST try the "PLAN" in ONE STATE , first??? and if it works in 5 years - roll it out???
It's one thing to disagree on abortion --- I can just disagree, because I have the choice to avoid it in my life. But, TAKE AWAY my choice of Health Insurance. THAT is NOT constitutional; that is not a right bestowed to the FEDS.
I hope you at least now have another perspective.
Take care,
-DV
here's the links you'd find OBama's own goal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAPLb-HVcM&feature=related
There's more, but I don't want to overwhelm. I just want people to be careful what you wish for! (another old saying..)
I believe that Obama won the election by default, due to overwhelming rejection of Bush administration policies and a weak Republican nominee associated with Bush. Moreover, Obama would not have been the Democratic Party nominee had Bill Clinton not blown it for Hilary.
Now to Health Care and the current debate. You are dead wrong to blame the outrage on fringe elements. Listen and open your mind.
Obama and the executive branch are not leading. The executive branch has abrogated its responsibility to congressional committees, numerous in number. The process is viewed as chaotic. Jim, do you really believe that the American public has any confidence in Congress. Read the opinion polls.
Well, I am perplexed as well. Many days when I go to the LIRR to catch my train to NYC, I find someone standing there handing out propaganda regarding health care. "Death boards" Did any of these people actually read that part of the bill. It talks about "Living wills" and health care proxys, which anyone who has gone thru estate planning already has in place. What's frightening is that these fear tactics work. Just as it worked at the time of all the hype about WMD in Iraq.
Health care reform is sorely needed. In my small office we offered paid health insurance to our employees for decades. After meeting a $250 deductible, $80 of the cost was reimbursed. Over the years as the cost of insurance became higher the deductible went to $1000. Currently, we offer several plans and the employees contribute a small amount. The costs are getting higher and the benefits are diminishing. At this rate, no one can reasonably say that this is adequate health care. Something must be done and it should be done with discussion and NOT with screaming and wild accusations. For those of you that are giving in to the anger, read the actual bill, it may surprise you.
I think we all have a big misunderstanding on the term "change". While "change" is a big slogan that probably helped Obama to win the election, The change Obama promoted is not necessarily a good one (he just said change, he NEVER said good change, don't assume change always means good).
I don't condone the swastika painting act or other inappropriate acts (which by the way liberals did them like crazy, but liberal media choose not to report them, and see the acts as never happened).
And while you guys keep pointing fingers to the protesters, which are using their constitutional right, you guys never really consider the serious consequence of socialized health care.
First of all 84% of Americans are happy with their health insurance (which the liberal media is not interested to tell the public). Also, scientists will not be motivated to create treatments for new deceases if they are not reward by money - this is not "greed", it is just how things work.
And in case you don't know, America's medical service is so good that not only Canadians, but people from all over the world are coming to this country for the treatments they needed. I think this alone explains something. Of course, you won't hear this from the liberal media, would you?
I don't know about you, but for me, I don't want the gov bureaucrat to decide what treatment I can get and when can I get it, I want my doctor to decided what's best for me and no one stands in between. I don't think we want our country like Canada or UK, got to wait 6 months for any kind of treatment.
There are tons of cases that patients Canada, especially seniors, have serious illnesses and need the proper treatment ASAP. Sorry, you can have it for free, but you got wait 6 months to just check out the problem. Some of them then come to US, get the treatment within a week.
And by the way, Obama wants Americans to snitch on each other, forward emails that are opposite to the health care reform to the white house. I think this move is pretty communist.
I don't blame people being liberal, but I blame their stupidity. Well, many liberal are driven by ideologies instead of open their eyes to see the reality, which their ideologies will just make people's live miserable.
and, by the way Jim. If you still don't have it, let me get a little personal.
Let's say your kid has a serious illness, and need a treatment ASAP. Under this reform, the gov say you can have it, you don't even need to pay, but sorry, you need to wait for 6 months just for check out what illness your kid has.
Would you rather wait 6 months to get a check up and 6 more to get the treatment, or say to the gov "go to hxll" and get your kid the treatment he needed right away, no matter the cost?
This is not rocket science, this is simply common sense.
Mr. Watkins,
Unlike Sarah Palin, as the parent of a special needs child and possibly elderly parents you have failed to do your own due diligence on Obamacare by reading for yourself the bill or reading the findings of those who have. You slavishly follow the campaign slogans and promises that Obama regurgitates at every opportunity but obviously never bothered to review his promises and stated goal available on youtube to end private insurance medical coverage and install a single payer governemnt run plan.
The only truthful remark that Obama made yesterday is that the government cannot run an efficient, competitive business the US Post Office,when forced to compete with private businesses, UPS for one.The US governmet cannot run a railroad, Amtrak, mortgage cmpanies, Fannie. Freddie and Ginnie or even a business in Nevada selling booze and sexual favors(it went bankrupt).
Your remark about Canadian health care also shows a remarkable ignorance of the facts.
You should stick to reading the news put in front of you and leave the personal and political biases and editorializing tooff the air.
Mr Watkins,
Further to the above Dr Ezekiel Emanuel, Health advisor to President Obama and brother of Rahm, provided his views on the rationing of care to unproductive elderly and special needs children in
a 1996 Hastings Center article in which he wrote this:
"This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just alloca- tion of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future genera- tions, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.
So, according to Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, health care advisor to President Obama, the elderly with dementia and the young who have neurological disorders should be sacrificed for the common good. If you have a child with autism, cerebral palsy, Downs syndrome, or any other neurological disorder or chromosomal defect that prevents him or her from participating in society in the manner Dr. Emanuel or the government thinks they should, that neurological care would not be guaranteed as basic and would, therefore, not be covered in a government takeover of health care.
Dave - I'm not sure you cleared anything up other than letting us all know your viewpoint. All the facts have not come out yet, so we really don't know what is proposed. The protestors have a right to protest - that I agree with, but they should also research their facts fully. Since all the facts are not out. . .
KC - I work in the healthcare/education industry, and with the current healthcare, a 6 month wait for treatment is considered fast.
I would not want either a bureaucrat or a doctor decide what is best for my health. As a survivor of 15 (brain) surgeries - all which the doctors recommended(dictated), I don't feel that they ever gave me ALL the information I needed to make the decision to have the surgeries. The doctors are driven by big pharmas and lining their own pocketbooks as well. Doctors treat symptoms and do not cure the cause of the symptoms. Yes, you might argue that iI'm still here, but do doctors look at quality of life issues when making decisions?
The current way of healthcare is ruled by the big pharmaceuticals. Other countries offer other alternatives for cancer that are not offered here. Chemo cost much $$ and yes, it kills cancer cells, but many times it also kills good cells and can lead to death. Shouldn't we be informed on all options available and then be given a choice?
Mr. Watkins
I am surprised on you comments on the news last night about the Health Care Debate issue. I have alot of respect for you over the years but your comments are way off base on this topic. First and foremost, President Obama won the election based on his overall agenda of "change". However,lets be real, his election was fueled by the anti Bush mode the country was in relative the the War and the Economy. When we vote, individuals do not alway agree on every issue the candidates stand for. Whether your rebublican or democrat, you vote for the majority of the beliefs or direction put forth by the candidates. Voting for someone is not writing a blank check on every issue. With regards the health care issue, have you seen the polls that clearing state that the anti-health care reform by Obama is the sentiment of the majority and not just the few that are attending the town hall meetings. Besides, our democracy was born on challenging policies. Did you say that the protests against Bush was the minority when it was covered by the media? Obviously, it wasn't. I hope you are just trying to stir up some ratings or activity for the web site versus you own opinion. I had a higher regard for your views than this.
and by the way, I don't want my tax dollars to be used to fund baby murdering process, aka abortion, in this health care reform.
Jim,
I'm sorry to have to say this but in much of what you say, YOU are "full of s&#t@"
Jim's future email address - jimwatkins@msnbc.com
Mr. Watkins,
If you read the comments suggest you check out real news about what went on outside the staged town hall meeting held by the President before a bussed in crowd of Obama supporting ticket holders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7W24O1Dto&feature=related
Not a Nazi uniform or swastika insight, only real Americans, who could not get into the town hall expressing their constitutional right to protest.
Mr. Watkins,
If you read the comments suggest you check out real news about what went on outside the staged town hall meeting held by the President before a bussed in crowd of Obama supporting ticketholders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7W24O1Dto&feature=related
Not a Nazi uniform or swastika insight, only real Americans, who could not get into the town hall expressing their constitutional right to protest.
Hey, Folks.. I appreciate all your comments, but I have to stick with the basic premise of what I wrote: that Obama, and many members of the Democratic congressional majority that support him, actively and openly campaigned for many months on the promise of reforming health care and including an option--an option-- to purchase health insurance through the federal government. And they won their elections handily. So they get to try and push their policies through. Regardless of whether there was anti-Bush sentiment that helped elect Obama, regardless of what the WEATHER was like on election day.... he won. Whoever gets the most votes, Republican or Democrat, gets to do things like appoint Supreme Court justices and advance policy proposals. I understand this as how democracy works. I don't really see what is inherently liberal about this.
Hey Jimbo,
Where did you stand when Bush "pushed" through attacking Iraq cuz of WMD's?
This is my and many of my fellow disabled American Veterans opinion; many Americans are worried about what kind of care we will receive with goverment-run medical care. You want to know about what will happen, ask your sons & daughters who are in the care of the government. When we put our lives in the hands of the Veterans Administration after service in the military, we must remember what this country is all about... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This is the fundamental reason our country exists.
I, for one, have little faith in the Veterans Administration, and for one reason only...government employees think they can't be touched and are unaccountable for what they do. They make a mistake, they should be held accountable. I just want every American to know (and this can be checked out), many mistakes are made. Many veterans do die. Our medical records are held by the government. Too many of my fellow veterans get insufficient care and treatment for all the horrors that we go through during war, both physically and mentally.
When it takes 7 years to receive Social Security Disability, something is wrong with this picture! I'm sure every American knows someone who is a veteran. Lets make a logical and assertive drive to give every American good swift medical treatment for what ails them. When you have to wait 4 months to be treated for cancer, something is wrong with this picture. When you spontaneously start breaking ribs and theres no answer, something is wrong with this picture. When people's lives are destroyed by drug addicton and treatment is not available, something is wrong with this picture. All I have to say is if we are going to debate about health care, we should forget about the bottom line and give care and treatment as it is required to have a life worth living, knowing that we have not only the technology, but compassion to make those who fight for this country have some kind of quality life. Everyone knows a Veteran. Lets talk to them first. Forget about the Democrats; forget about Republicans; this is one issue that belongs in our Constitution.
My name is Steven Noonan, disabled Veteran, United States Air Force, Father of 3, Grandfather of 3, Tax Payer, who feels that we should not compromise anyones health. Something needs to be done...DO IT!
Steven Noonan
91 ferry St.
Jersey City, NJ 07307
(201) 216- 0931
Thank You
This is my and many of my fellow disabled American Veterans opinion; many Americans are worried about what kind of care we will receive with goverment-run medical care. You want to know about what will happen, ask your sons & daughters who are in the care of the government. When we put our lives in the hands of the Veterans Administration after service in the military, we must remember what this country is all about... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This is the fundamental reason our country exists.
I, for one, have little faith in the Veterans Administration, and for one reason only...government employees think they can't be touched and are unaccountable for what they do. They make a mistake, they should be held accountable. I just want every American to know (and this can be checked out), many mistakes are made. Many veterans do die. Our medical records are held by the government. Too many of my fellow veterans get insufficient care and treatment for all the horrors that we go through during war, both physically and mentally.
When it takes 7 years to receive Social Security Disability, something is wrong with this picture! I'm sure every American knows someone who is a veteran. Lets make a logical and assertive drive to give every American good swift medical treatment for what ails them. When you have to wait 4 months to be treated for cancer, something is wrong with this picture. When you spontaneously start breaking ribs and theres no answer, something is wrong with this picture. When people's lives are destroyed by drug addicton and treatment is not available, something is wrong with this picture. All I have to say is if we are going to debate about health care, we should forget about the bottom line and give care and treatment as it is required to have a life worth living, knowing that we have not only the technology, but compassion to make those who fight for this country have some kind of quality life. Everyone knows a Veteran. Lets talk to them first. Forget about the Democrats; forget about Republicans; this is one issue that belongs in our Constitution.
My name is Steven Noonan, disabled Veteran, United States Air Force, Father of 3, Grandfather of 3, Tax Payer, who feels that we should not compromise anyones health. Something needs to be done...DO IT!
Steven Noonan
91 ferry St.
Jersey City, NJ 07307
(201) 216- 0931
Thank You
This is my and many of my fellow disabled American Veterans opinion; many Americans are worried about what kind of care we will receive with goverment-run medical care. You want to know about what will happen, ask your sons & daughters who are in the care of the government. When we put our lives in the hands of the Veterans Administration after service in the military, we must remember what this country is all about... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This is the fundamental reason our country exists.
I, for one, have little faith in the Veterans Administration, and for one reason only...government employees think they can't be touched and are unaccountable for what they do. They make a mistake, they should be held accountable. I just want every American to know (and this can be checked out), many mistakes are made. Many veterans do die. Our medical records are held by the government. Too many of my fellow veterans get insufficient care and treatment for all the horrors that we go through during war, both physically and mentally.
When it takes 7 years to receive Social Security Disability, something is wrong with this picture! I'm sure every American knows someone who is a veteran. Lets make a logical and assertive drive to give every American good swift medical treatment for what ails them. When you have to wait 4 months to be treated for cancer, something is wrong with this picture. When you spontaneously start breaking ribs and theres no answer, something is wrong with this picture. When people's lives are destroyed by drug addicton and treatment is not available, something is wrong with this picture. All I have to say is if we are going to debate about health care, we should forget about the bottom line and give care and treatment as it is required to have a life worth living, knowing that we have not only the technology, but compassion to make those who fight for this country have some kind of quality life. Everyone knows a Veteran. Lets talk to them first. Forget about the Democrats; forget about Republicans; this is one issue that belongs in our Constitution.
My name is Steven Noonan, disabled Veteran, United States Air Force, Father of 3, Grandfather of 3, Tax Payer, who feels that we should not compromise anyones health. Something needs to be done...DO IT!
Steven Noonan
91 ferry St.
Jersey City, NJ 07307
(201) 216- 0931
Thank You
I do appreciate what veterans have done for this country, but are their needs greater than the average citizen?? They get plenty of benefits that the working poor do not get. Everyone should be able to "get care and treatment as required to have a life worth living", not just veterans. Is a veteran better than me? A little egotistical, no?
A fellow blogger had a good point though. He said the three health-care departments already being run by the government, Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Administration (especially the latter imo) are disasters so why can we expect better if the feds take over the entire health-care system? Did they suddenly learn how to do it?
I have Medicare and Medicaid and it works great for me. Don't believe that the few stories you hear represent the majority. Like usual, the media will keep reporting on bad news with little regard to the good news. I have had 3 strokes and numerous surgeries and I have always received good medical care. Obama's vow to reform healthcare means all of it -b so perhaps we should wait and see
You don't like government running things, feel free to abolish your local police force and first responders, and go picket outside your local military base. Oh, and drive your own garbage to the landfill for a change.
If you're not willing to do that, then you obviously don't have a problem with government-run programs, so please stop whining.
Also, if any of the critics actually read the bill they would know that there is absolutely no "government takeover" of healthcare in it. For the vast majority of people the only change will be that your insurance company can't discriminate against you if you have a pre-existing condition or drop your coverage if you get sick--in other words, making sure that when you buy health insurance you actually get what you pay for. Another provision is for a health exchange where the uninsured can select any private health plan they want and get a better deal than they would now because they have more bargaining power as part of the exchange. The only provision for anything resembling government-run health insurance (not government-run health care like the VA or the UK's NHS) is a public option that, unlike Medicare, will not be directly funded by taxpayers but must rather collect premiums just like any other health insurance provider.